Welcome to episode 563 of the School of Podcasting
Have you ever had a problem with something, and then when you stated your problem out loud the answer came to you as you were saying it? You can use that exercise to help your podcast. I recently read about 80% of the book Out on the Wire: The Storytelling Secrets of the New Masters of Radio by Jessica Abel. Jessica went DEEP INSIDE NPR and the creators of This American Life and took lots of notes and shared them. One strategy they use to shape a story is to say out loud, "I'm doing a story about X, and what is interesting about it is Y. They say it's important to do this out loud to a real person.
Then to shape your story you use this tool, Somebody does something because of ____(their motivation) but _____(a challenge). If you can't answer the but, then ask yourself, "What do I have?"
They have another exercise where their focus setting may be something like. "This happened _______, then this ____, then this ____, and you would #$%&! believe it but ____. And the reason that is interesting to every single person walking on the face of the earth is ______.
This is where I draw the line. Sure we want everyone to like our episode, but that is NOT going to happen. If you try to make a podcast that is interesting to every single person, you will go crazy. Keep in mind these people are telling stories, and stories are powerful, but in certain circumstances, they don't really fit.
For example, Many podcasters want to make money with their podcast (motivation) but only 10% of podcasters get enough downloads to get big named sponsors. Then this guy start a podcast about horses, and you won't believe it but he got a sponsor when he had less than 100 downloads per episode. He added more and more shows and called it a network, and ignored the CPM model brought over by radio, and now he is making a full-time living with his podcast. The reason this is important is dynamic ad insertion is paying very low rates and uninformed podcasters may take those fees because they feel they can't get a sponsor without huge downloads.
If I'm interviewing technology, it may be a piece of technology that eliminates the challenge. Some podcasters have a hard time sharing promotional material with their guests, but podhero.io makes it easy.
Your intro Can Make or Break Your Podcast
This is from the Book Ted Talk by Chris Anderson
Zak Ebrahim did a TED Talk, and he originally was going to start his talk with this paragraph:
I was born in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania in 1983 to a loving American Mother and an Egyptian Father who tried their best to create a happy childhood for me. It wasn't until I was seven years old that our family dynamic started to change. My father exposed me to a side if Islam that few people (including the majority of Muslims) get to see but in fact when people take the time to interact with one another it doesn't take long to realize that for the most part, we all want the same things out of life
The folks at TED brainstormed and help him come up with this opening Paragraph:
On November 5th 1990 a man named El Sayyid Nosair walked into a hotel in Manhattan and assassinated Rabbi Meir Kahanethe leader of the Jewish Defense league. Nosair was found not guilty of the murder, but while serving time on lesser charges he and other men started planning attacks on a dozen New York City landmarks including tunnels, synagogues, and the united Nations Headquarters. Thankfully those plans were foiled by an FBI informant. Sadly the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center was not. Nosair would eventually be convicted for his involvement in the plot. El Sayyid Nosair is my father.
The audience was riveted See video https://youtu.be/lyR-K2CZIHQ
Leave Out Stuff That You Don't Need
Once, when I was eight years old, my father took me fishing. We were in a tiny boat, five miles from shore, when a massive storm blew in. Dad put a life jacket on me and whispered in my ear, "Do you trust me, son?" I nodded. He threw me overboard. [pause] I kid you not. Just tossed me over! I hit the water and bobbed up to the surface, gasping for breath. It was shockingly cold. The waves were terrifying. Monstrous. Then . . . Dad dived in after me. We watched in horror as our little boat flipped and sank. But he was holding me the whole time, telling me it was going to be OK. Fifteen minutes later, the Coast Guard helicopter arrived. It turned out that Dad knew the boat was damaged and was going to sink, and he had called them with our exact location. He guessed it was better to chuck me in the open sea than risk getting trapped when the boat flipped. And that is how I learned the true meaning of the word trust.
EXAMPLE 2: SAME STORY WITH TOO MUCH DETAIL AND NO EMOTION
I learned trust from my father when I was eight years old and we got caught in a storm while out fishing for mackerel. We failed to catch a single one before the storm hit. Dad knew the boat was going to sink, because it was one of those Saturn brand inflatable boats, which are usually pretty strong, but this one had been punctured once and Dad thought it might happen again. In any case, the storm was too big for an inflatable boat and it was already leaking. So he called the Coast Guard rescue service, who, back then, were available 24/7, unlike today. He told them our location, and then, to avoid the risk of getting trapped underwater, he put a life jacket on me and threw me overboard before jumping in himself. We then waited for the Coast Guard to come and, sure enough, 15 minutes later the helicopter showed up—I think it was a Sikorsky MH-60 Jayhawk— and we were fine.
The first version is a story of trust and emotion. The second version has tangents left and right and is filled with information that doesn't back up the main story. If we "X Y" this, My Dad and I went fishing, but he threw me overboard. And this is interesting as we all need to learn how to trust people. The second version doesn't even bring up the key sentence for me, "Do you trust me son?"
In the book Secrets of Dynamic Communications: Prepare with Focus, Deliver with Clarity, Speak with Power author Ken Davis states, "To make it as clear and powerful as possible, it is necessary to know exactly what you want to accomplish and then keep only material that will contribute to the objective." He also states, If you aim at nothing, you will hit it every time. Another strategy is that if you just throw enough things at your audience, one of them is bound to have an impact.
Niel who is the editor the The Messengers: a Podcast Documentary as well as the host of All Things Post, and the owner of Wildstyle Media, and star of his YouTube Channel shares some of the non-traditional items he has shot video to get experience and talk about the steps of assembling your story.
In the same way that you don't take your car to the dentist to get it fixed, Niel thinks business people should stop editing their show and pass that off to editors to help them tell their story. Niel uses Dropbox to swap files back and forth with his clients as well as Frame.io
One of the common mistakes that podcasters make that Niel has to edit out is letting their guest go on weird tangents in the interview that end up on the chopping floor.
If I could do this again I would. I was looking for a number like "16" not a range of an EPISODE (not a month) after 30 days. So look at an episode from 30 days ago and tell me how many downloads it has. Then when I asked what was the least amount, I'm not sure I was clear enough to say PER EPISODE. So I would call this survey a wash. I thank all 37 people who replied.
Are you interested in making money from your podcast?
89.2% Said Yes.
10.8% said no.
How Many Downloads Do You Get Per Episode After 30 days, and what is the smallest amount of money you would take from an Advertiser.
7 Respondents had 100 downloads or less, and they said they would take anywhere from $5-$500. The people close to 100 downloads per episode were looking for $25-35.
3 Respondents got between 101-200 downloads. Two were not interested in making money, and the third wants at least $10.
3 Respondents had between 201-300 downloads and said they would take $5, $10.
1 Respondent had between 300-400 downloads said they were highly relevant and would take $500.
1 Respondent had between 401 -500 downloads said they would take $200
1 Respondent said they had 600 downloads per episode and would take a minimum of $10
1 Respondent said they had 800 downloads per episode and would take a minimum of $150
1 Respondent said they had 900 downloads per episode and would take a minimum of $50 for advertisers but on Patreon I will mention a fans business for $25
1 Respondent said they had 1000 downloads per episode and are getting (currently) $50
1 Respondent said they had 1000 downloads per episode and would take $225
1 Respondent said they had 1250 downloads per episode and would take $50
1 Respondent said they had 2000 downloads per episode and would take $50
1 Respondent said they had 2400 downloads per episode and would take $20
2 Respondents said they had 2500 downloads per episode and would take $25. The other is getting $100
1 Respondent said they had 3000 downloads per episode and would take $50
2 Respondent said they had 4000 downloads per episode and one is getting $250, the other wants $300
1 Respondent said they had 4673 downloads per episode and will take $1 per second (30-second ad, $30)
1 Person had 50 downloads an episode and is getting $250 ( I would think this has to be a month or a typo)
1 Person had 1000 downloads an episode and is getting $50 ($50/cpm)
1 Person had 2500 downloads an episode and is getting $1o0 ($40/cpm)
1 Person had 4000 downloads an episode and is getting $250 ($62.5/cpm)
1 Person had 4763 downloads an episode and is getting $1/sec (one spot $30) ($6.29/cpm)
1 Person had 10000 downloads an episode and is getting $55 ($5.5/cpm)
1 Person had 50000 downloads an episode and is getting $125 ($2.5/cpm)
Have you ever started a podcast? (Yes or No)
If no, what is holding you back?
Are you still producing that show? (Yes or No)
What are the name of the show and the web address?
Why do you podcast?
What was the name of your show?
Why did you walk away from podcasting?
Go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/contact. If you use email, please put 468 in the subject line.
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Today on episode 562 Joe Saul Sehy of the Stacking Benjamins podcast explains how he changed his podcast format, and lost 30% of his audience but now is working on his fifth sponsor.
Joe Saul-Sehy is the creator and co-host of the Stacking Benjamins podcast. Kiplinger magazine listed it as Best Podcast 2016 and The Art of Manliness listed it in their list of their top podcasts for 2016 (although the show isn't specifically aimed at men). Stacking Benjamins is a light, magazine-style podcast about money, where the goal isn't to teach as much as it's about entertaining people enough that they learn. Over the last four years Joe had to rebrand the podcast twice and after Podcast Movement 2015 completely blew up his format and changed everything. He has five different sponsors and the show comes out three times a week. Today on episode 562 we have a long talk with Joe with some great nuggets.
You're probably going to hear more about this in the future, but I purchased the Steve Martin master class and it is CHOCK FULL of great content (and we haven't' even got to the comedy part yet). Here are some takeaways:
Steve went from being on the end of an old movement to the front of a new movement. instead of talking about the same old stuff, he asked, "What hasn't been talked about?"
All movies are cult movies.
Steve wanted to be funny without telling jokes.
When you decide on a bit, you are defining your taste, and your audience is waiting for your taste as you are the authority. They want to know what YOU think.
Apple has updated their branding and to change the name of the podcast directory from Podcasts to Apple Podcasts (which ties in with the Apple Watch, Apple iPad, etc)
What I'm seeing as a support person from Libsyn is a more than average amount of people where there show does not update (it takes 24 hours to update anyway, and your subscribers get the episode almost instantly). So if it's been longer than 24 hours and your show is still not showing in your Apple Podcasts listing then you might want to check your artwork (I know it seems unrelated, but out of spec artwork causes all sorts of issues). Here are the specifications:
Use rGB color space
Be a JPG, JPEG, or a PNG file
If you need an online tool to help resize or compress your file check out pixlr.com
Podcast Movement is in August and it's going to be a great time. Use the coupon code sop10 to get 10% off your ticket.
Joe knows he doesn't want to be another "talking head" about finance talking 401ks. He wanted to be entertaining and also talk about finance. When Joe gets a review that says he's not funny, instead of changing his format, Joe takes that as a cue to work on being funny. Here are some other topics we talk about:
Instead of choosing a solo show or an interview show, Joe does both.
Joe knew the first version of the show was going to be a test, and purposely made 13 episodes
The second version of his show made it 69 episodes before Joe changed his format again.
Joe makes sure his intro lets his audience know that this is NOT The typical finance show.
He starts working on a show five weeks in advance using the Promo Republic service
You have the ranking that you deserve.
How he decided to bleep out or leave in swearing
How he handles negative reviews
How he drew a "line in the sand" with his intro to let people know if this is for them or not.
How he used affiliate links as a "sponsor"
How he gave his first sponsor a sweet deal to have a big company sponsor his show (which made him look bigger than he was at the time)
How he chooses sponsors and the criteria he uses.
How he keeps people tuned in during midroll advertisements.
How he gets big guests using tools like netgalley.com
Why he takes one week off every 8 weeks and what he does to fill in the gap.
How one woman sent hate mail, only the be one of the first people to sign up for his Facebook
What drives him nuts as a podcast listener.
Every month I do a show based on listener feedback, and the deadline is 4/21/
it is a super easy survey at https://schoolofpodcasting.com/poll564
Podcasting in the Media: Teen Titans
I want to thank Caine Door of the Adventure Frequency for letting me know that: "In the newly released animated film: Teen Titans the Judas contract (Warner Brothers) Kevin Smith is in the movie as himself interviewing a member of the team on his podcast and it's good.
He's a known fanboy so he has great questions and brings some levity to the end of the movie after the big final battle scene.
I think it says something that they make time for podcasting in the movie."
This is just another example of podcasting being more and more mainstream. Thanks to Caine for the heads up.
Thress Years Into Podcasting, She's Not Where She Thought's She's Be, She's in an Event Better Place
Natalie Echdahl Almost Quit Podcasting - She's Glad She Didn't
Natalie Eckdahl, MBA, is a business coach, professional facilitator, keynote speaker and the host of the Biz Chix Podcast which iTunes featured as a top New Business Podcast in March 2014. Three years ago she went to social media marketing world, she joined John Lee Dumas' Podcaster's Paradise and started following "the formula" that everyone at the time did. However, it didn't reap the results that she expected. At one point Natalie launched a mastermind group, and not a single listener signed up. As she unfolds her story today, you will hear how Natalie handles disappointments and turns them into learning experiences. You will learn:
I love Natalie's opening. In less than a minute you understand what the show is about, where it's going, and who it's for. My guess is she used Music Radio Creative
I also love her closing call to action which uses her two young sons. It makes it memorable and makes her even more human.
When to do an interview show, and when to do a solo show
How breaking away from "podcasting best practices" had her numbers go through the roof
How to get your audience involved with your show.
The importance of timing with your podcast
Is your podcast in a Blue Ocean, or Red Ocean (see the book Blue Ocean Strategy, Expanded Edition: How to Create Uncontested Market Space and Make the Competition Irrelevant)
Personal connections lead to her sponsorship with Aweber
How she went from being an attendee to a speaker at Social Media Marketing World
How she is promoting her show on social media
Starting a business? Work with Natalie by going to www.bizchix.com/workwithme
Mentioned In This Episode
Stop Chasing Influencers book by Jared Easley
Need Some One on One Podcast Consulting?
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Chuck Berry died last month at the age of 90. I saw him four years ago at a special event that honored him with tons of musicians (Merle Haggard, Ronnie Hawkins, Darryl "DMC" McDaniels, Joe Bonamassa and Lemmy Kilmister) coming to play his music and honor him. At the end of the night, Berry accepted the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's American Masters of Music Award, wrapping the Hall of Fame's weeklong celebration of Berry's life. In the end, they brought Chuck out with a band consisting of a lot of his children who knew how to follow their father's (at times) unpredictable behavior (Chuck got confused in the middle of song two, and restarted it). Chuck got us smiling from the very first moment. He said, "It's great to be here. Then again, I'm 86; I'm glad to be anywhere." So here are some things, on Episode 560, that podcasters can learn from Chuck Berry.
Now as a guitar player myself, you start playing the guitar hoping to play Stairway to Heaven, Iron Man, Smoke on the Water, you want to be Van Halen, but you don't start there. You start with Chuck Berry, and you start with Johnny B Goode. In the same way that every band has to learn Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl, every guitar player has to learn how to play Johnny B Good. I am no exception.
Other musicians had pedalboard were made of technology on top of technology. They could do the river dance as they changed the tone of their guitar with each tap of their foot. Chuck came out with his trusty guitar and plugged into a single amplifier. He hit the opening riff of Roll Over Beethoven, and you could not help but smile. Chuck had one tone, it was Chuck Berry. This was not a drill, this was not a test, right there in front of my was Chuck Berry. He had a smile on his face, and by the third beat, the whole place was clapping along to the music, dancing, or both.
2. Give the People What They Want.
Chuck Berry had many styles. Some of his songs had remnants of country music. He played slow blues., You probably don't know most of those songs. If you wanted airplay, you had to play something kids (teenagers) wanted, and could dance to. One other thing, the teenagers were the ones buying the music. Rock and Roll music was new. It was a great way for being rebellious, and the fact that this was Rock and Roll from a BLACK MAN, made it even more revolutionary (this was the 1950s). You will notice that Roll Over Beethoven, Johnny B Goode, Rock and Roll Music and many other Berry titles are pretty much the same song. When he appeared on the Johnny Carson show, he said to the band leader, "It's the same as the last song" as they prepared to play another song. However, those songs like Sweet Little Sixteen, School Days, and others were instantly relatable to his audience.
He also had suggestive lyrics which probably made parents offended. Here is a verse from Roll Over Beethoven:
Well, if you feel and like it
Go get your lover, then reel and rock it
Roll it over and move on up just
A trifle further and reel and rock with one another,
Roll over Beethoven dig these rhythm and blues.
3. Chuck Was Engaging
Chuck made sure you were looking at him. in the early days of his career he usually wore black or white suits, but his eyes, mouth, and hands, and especially his legs demanded attention. He would strum his guitar in a way that has hand moved from the back to guitar toward to top. As a guitar player, I can tell you it makes almost no difference where you strum an electric guitar, but it looks cool (and yes, I've borrowed that move). His "Duck Walk" he said in a CBS interview was a mistake. He had slipped and fallen and the "Duck Walk" happened as he was trying to get back up. He noticed the ovation and worked it into his act. Chuck paid attention to what made the audience go wild.
4. Charge What Your Worth
There is only one Chuck Berry. Sure everyone from the Beatles, Stones, Elvis, Duan Alman, The Kinks, John Lennon, Simon and Garfunkle, Bruce Springsteen, and David Bowie, they all have covered his music. There is only ONE Chuck Berry. Consequently, Chuck knew this and after being ripped off in the early part of his career, he started demanding that he get paid up front, in cash.
5. Chuck Got the Audience Involved
Most of his big hits made it super easy to make them "sing-alongs." All Chuck had to say was "Go!" and put his hand up to his ear and the audience would sing "Go Johny Go, Go.."
6. A Little Planning Up Front Saves Some Editing Time Later
Post-1970 Chuck didn't tour with a band. He brought his guitar and whoever was promoting his concert was in charge of putting together a band. On a tonight show appearance, he said, "well everybody knows my music." This was true, but they all sounded the same. While they are not obvious, when you see Chuck perform with these acts, the intros are a little sloppy, and the endings were often train wrecks as the band didn't know that when Chuck kicks his leg up that meant stop.
7. Don't Break The Law
Chuck had issues with the law about every 15-20 years. One involved him putting cameras in the women's bathroom. While he was never convicted of wrongdoing, he did settle out of court, and it cost him 1.2 million dollars.
8. Take Care of Your Team / Get Things in Writing
One of the reasons Chuck insisted on being paid in cash is he had been swindled out of money by promoters and clubs in the past. One key player in Berry's band was Johnnie Johnson (his piano player). In November 2000, Johnson sued Berry, alleging he deserved co-composer credits (and royalties) for dozens of songs, including "No Particular Place to Go," "Sweet Little Sixteen," and "Roll Over Beethoven," which credit Berry alone. The case was dismissed in less than a year because too many years had passed since the songs in dispute were written.
9. Don't Spend all Your Money on Gear
A recent report estimated Chuck's estate is worth 50 million. While some of this is from record royalties, Chuck invested in Real Estate. When you start making money with your podcast (if that is something you choose to do) spend some on your family, put some in the bank (and avoid the stress of worrying about money).
10. While You Can Give Them Something Similar, it Still Has to Be Good
Did you know there was a sequel to Johnny B Good? Me neither. According to Wikipedia it never charted in any country. So in the same what that creating a song about Johnny B Good isn't going to equal chart success, creating a podcast with the phrase "On Fire" (or whatever is hot at the moment ) does not mean you will get chart success.
Why People Remember Chuck Berry
There is a famous quote by Maya Angelou, “I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” Chuck Berry's music made people smile, it made them want to dance, and they lead to them having fun, and in some cases there was realin' and rockin'.
What is Podheri.io?
Podhero is described as a swiss army knife for podcasters with a goal of making podcast creation and promotion easier.
The site describes it as "Automate the technical hurdles to make your vocals sound amazing." So I compared it to Auphonic.com as they both level out the volume, and remove noise (hiss and hum). If I were to judge the output, I would say it's very close (if not a tie). In looking at the wav forms, it appears auphonic might have an ever so slight edge, but keep in mind, my ears didn't' notice anything. The only true advantage (depending on your attitude) is Auphonic has more configuration options (so you can set loudness levels if you want to just level volume and not remove noise). But I was impressed with the audio processing. This opinion is based upon testing one file.
Podcast To Video
If can take your audio podcast and send it to YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. It also gives you a basic tool to create a custom artwork. You can do this if you are using Libsyn and Spreaker. Blubrry does some distribution (but they only do the first few minutes of your show). The tool for creating an image is really basic and is better than nothing. When there are tools such as canva.com as a free option, I could see using Canva to create the image, and then use the "upload your own" option here to make your video. Is video worth it? My last episode from the School of Podcasting had 26 views, and I was surprised that the analytics show people were watching a majority. My advice would be to open this tool in a new window as the processing of audio to video is going to take some time. Currently, you can have the tool automatically post to YouTube (with plan of Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Medium)
Website Widget Review
This tool will put a small pop-up on your website. You just copy and paste some code. For me, I find this tool "meh" because ratings in iTunes are great social proof, they don't help you advance up the charts (I thnk people put too much emphasis on them as a "must do").
My Podcast Reviews
This tool brings you all of your reviews from all of the stores. This is a free tool. This does have a feature that I found interesting. It shows you your reviews across a period. I found that interesting. They attempt to show you (on a map) where the reviews come from, but besides getting the country correct, I wouldn't count it accurate from a geographic standpoint.
iTunes Keyword Tracking
This allows you to put in your (or your "Competition's") iTunes link and enter a keyword. So I can see where The Audacity to Podcast Ranks higher than my show, but I rank higher than the Podcast Report. That's interesting. There is no way to say "who is #1?" I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to with this information. Many moons ago I had a program called Webmaster Gold, and it would track your website and let you know where you ranked. This lead to people writing articles more for the Google Web crawler instead of the humans who were reading it. Also, when I was a teacher in the corporate world, I would do my best every day. Every day I got scored by my students. While I always feel there is room for improvement, I'm not sure there was anything I would change (in most cases) if someone gave me an average score. So for me, I see this as a set of interesting statistics, that people can obsess over, but in the end, may not lead to any value being delivered to your audience.
Episode Media Kits
If you do a lot of interviews, this could be your favorite feature. Here you upload promotional images, create messages to go to Twitter, Facebook Google+, and LinkedIn. You upload pictures, create your tweets, and copy and link and send that to your guest. They can send a message with a single click. For me, this is the most useful tool (again, if you're doing interviews, but don't limit your thinking, why not put the link in your post and give your audience access to promote your episode.
Much of this you can get for free for example:
Canva.com - free image creation tool
Podcast Rankings - have them emailed to you see Regan Star
If you're using Libsyn, you can automatically have your show syndicated to Twitter, Facebook, YouTube (with video, and you can add a custom image), iHeart Radio, LinkedIn, Tumblr, Blogger, and more.
Podcast Reviews - You can get this feature free in Podhero, as well as My Podcast Reviews
Audio Processing - You can get 2 hours free each month at auphonic.
Things Unique To Podhero
If you're not using Libsyn or Spreaker, it will create a video for you
It shows you your podcast reviews over time.
The podcast review widget.
The podcast media kit.
There is a free version that includes:
Worldwide iTunes Review Tracking (2 podcasts)
iTunes Keyword Tracker (1 keyword)
Measures how visible your podcast is on iTunes for any search term over time.
iTunes Review Website Widget (1 website)
The paid version is $20/month
Audio Enhancer Tool
Social Video Creator
Episode Media Kits
Podcast to Youtube
iTunes Keyword Researcher
iTunes Keyword Tracker (15 keywords)
Measures how visible your podcast is on iTunes for any search term over time.
Worldwide iTunes Review Tracking (5 podcasts)
When you get a new review on iTunes, from any country, you will be notified.
New & NoteworthyAlerts
iTunes Review Website Widget (unlimited)
What is the smallest amount you would take for advertising? (POLL)
Libsyn.com (Liberated Syndication) Use the coupon code sopfree to get a free month
Dave's Patreon Accounts see http://supportthisshow.com/
Start your podcast by joining the School of Podcasting go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/start